Natt: And GOOD MORNING Twitterverse! Didja miss us? I bet you did! Well no need to worry, Butches in the AM is back from hiatus and ready to rock! We’ve got a great show for you today, and we’re not sticking to the light and fluffy stuff. Real substance is DEFINITELY in order!
- Diva: It’s about damn time BitAM is back.
- Kyle: Yes ma’am. We agree!
Kyle: Happy New year tweeples. I know I missed you, Natt. I agree. Let’s get meaty and deep this morning. We have all weekend to recover. What do we lead with, my friend? Which meaty non-fluffy topic do you have on your mind?
Natt: Well, to kick it off, a little recap is in order. I believe you have something to share with the class?
Kyle: I do.. my family will be growing by one this year, Mrs. Kyle is pregnant. We’re due in July. My daddy factor is incrementing.
Natt: Congratulations! That’s awesome! Hooray for growing families! How do you feel?
Kyle: We’re pretty excited; this is a long time coming. Of course, I’m gonna be very, very busy and tired the second part of 2009
Natt: So, thus far in the process, what is it like to be the non-pregnant partner? Better? Worse? Totally different and incomparable?
Kyle: Hmmm. Well I can certainly relate to what she’s going through, and my responsibilities are increasing. She’s really tired. But I had 4 months of feeling ill, and she hasn’t had a spot of morning sickness. Lucky girl.
Natt: I bet. Making life doesn’t seem like it would be a particularly relaxing task
Kyle: Well, it’s amazing and wonderful and you feel like an alien invaded your body. How about you, my friend? What’s going on with you in the post-holiday haze?
- Diva: Ask Natt about the hot date he had last Friday night!
- Kyle: Yeah, we should get the report on that, shouldn’t we?
Natt: My own holiday haze has been just that: hazy. Working on getting back into the flow of things, and dealing with all the stuff that happened while I was away.
Kyle: Mmhmm. I know we swapped coasts for a while, and the visit home was mixed.
Natt: Which, actually, is a nice segue way into our next topic!
Kyle: Let’s get to it!
Natt: So what we’re going to talk about today is something that happens quite frequently, but is easy to overlook: the conflating of real life with your blog life. Let’s be honest. We all spend a fair amount of time online, be it twittering, chatting, blogging, facebooking etc. And it’s easy to get swept up in it, and to make it what your life’s all about. And even more dangerous, is the potential for it to become who you are, so you live your virtual life without being held accountable for its effects on your actual one.
Kyle: Yes it is. It’s easy to lose sight of priorities, of the effect we’re having on our in-the-flesh friends and family. And maybe it’s a sign of my addiction, but I don’t want to completely ditch my online life, but balance is important
Natt: My question is this: In this world of the blog, how do we make sure we’re staying accountable and grounded?
Kyle: I completely agree. I’m curious. Any listeners who can relate to what we’re talking about?
- Diva: It is up to each individual to do that. Some will find the balance very important & others will be totally caught up in their virtual life because that is what they want or need.
- Kyle: It’s very individual. I know for the health of my family life, I need to stay in balance.. And I need to be mindful of the impact my online actions have on my relationships… which seem to be growing in number
- Diva: Exactly. It depends on who the individual is and what they are getting out of their online persona. And this was a conversation Natt & I had last week when we were out. I don’t want lead two separate lives for me it is not healthy. However I can’t be completely out because of my job and children so I need to find a middle.
- Kyle: Like you, I’m not happy having too many ‘closets’ to deal with. I don’t want to have to hide one life from the other
- Natt: I guess my concern is, how do you make sure you’re not JUST your online persona. I know, as a person who compartmentalizes, I sometimes think I can do things as Natt that are totally at odds with my real life. I love being Natt and writing, but Natt cannot be all that I am. If people only see me as Natt, they lose out on a huge part of who I am, and those relationships can only be so meaningful.
- Kyle: I have a similar situation with Kyle, which is a very important, but not complete, part of who I am. I guess the key is having people in our offline lives who will call us on our shit. People we respect and can be honest with
- Natt: Agreed. I think keeping in touch with our offline lives gives us a better way of coping in the midst of the virtual jungle.
- Diva: But I don’t see you as Natt anymore. We met as Natt & Diva but we are not those two people anymore in our relationship which I think is part of the key to the balance between these two worlds. Same for Kyle and me. We all meet because we have blogs and twitter in common but then for some of us we take that to another level. That is how I combine my online and personal life.
- Kyle: Agreed. We can manage the online relationships at different levels. And as Diva points out, sometimes my online friendships turn into offline friendships, and maybe more. I’ve got a blog post started already about the frustration of being open and honest in my blog, when the people I’m involved with don’t want to necessarily read about each other. this started with my wife, who is proud and happy for me, but isn’t a Butchtastic reader and now gf Jaz is shying away because I’m writing about Roxy. So I could stop. But that makes me ill. I’ve lost track several times already in the past few months. My wife calls it the honeymoon phase, and we’ve both been through it many times over the years of our internet lives . She’s very active online as well. But I think I’m settling down again. Of course, with a baby on the way, I’d better settle down, huh?
- Steff: I’m online a lot because I’m being cheap, staying home, and have been antisocial a long time, but even though I’m around a lot, I’m very cynical about this and the blog and all. I know who I’ll be calling when I have a body to move at 3am, and it ain’t no one from these parts. Accountability, well, you just gotta know what/who/why you’re writing (for). I do. Me.
- Kyle: Hi Steff! Thanks for the call. Good points. Know your motives, right? Have you had incidents where your online life interfered or had a negative impact on RL?
- Steff: I lost one job because they knew about my blog. I had another employer lord it over me, so I quit. So, yeah. It happens. THAT said, I’m totally out. With enough digging you can find my full name attached to my blog. My current employers know. Well, someone outted me a long time ago. I’ve made the best of it. My bosses supportive of my writing & don’t care. Whew
- Kyle: Oh, I know. I have to be careful about who knows what. But I resent that, you know? Good for you being as open as you can be
- Audacia: For me, I’ve better achieved accountability by my online life being followed by “RL” friends etc. forging “RL” relationships that started online is good too (putting “RL” in quotes because I think digital intimacy is real. idea of “real” being not online bugs me)
- Diva: I think you wrote one of the best posts about online vs. RL back in Dec. after that day we were at brunch
- Audacia: Diva is referring to this post RE online/life: http://tinyurl.com/6sxm5a
- Kyle: I’ve invited RL friends. But they’re rather silent so far. And my wife doesn’t read Butchtastic. Not regularly.
- Audacia: The other piece of that: non-online peeps think active online life is weird. Would it be weird if your wife read Butchtastic?
- Diva: You’re exactly right about non-online peeps. They can’t comprehend making friends with strangers online.
- Kyle: True. People who don’t grok online also don’t’ value the relationships we form here. Dacia, I’m proud of what I’m doing in Butchtastic, and I’d be happy for her to read it so we could talk about everything.
- Natt: I find there tend to be less boundaries in the virtual world. So when you meet offline, you find that you’ve exposed more than maybe you would have if the whole interaction weren’t digital. Or at least you’ve done so much faster.
- Diva: I do think one of the best things about our online lives it that you find friends that you might not have met IRL. Because of age difference, jobs, location Any of those things. I get to know a wide range of people online which is a plus too
- Audacia: Getting to know people via internet who you wouldn’t otherwise meet is really the highlight of it for me
- Natt: Agreed. I’ve met some really amazing people through the online community. I think though, sometimes, it’s important to know what you’re putting out there. I think the levels of intimacy we open ourselves up to online are often not justified in terms of how well you ACTUALLY know people.And that intimacy is seductive. You feel simultaneously connected and still at a safe distance because that person only knows what you tell them about your life. For me, I found it was easy to neglect the people I’d know for a long time when presented with the prospect of being “Natt.” I could control what people knew about me and it felt separate from a life that had real consequence, because I controlled my image. It doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t value my online relationships, but I definitely sacrificed my offline ones in their interest
- Kyle: Well, the fact that you recognize that is a step in the direction of solving the issue, right?
- Diva: I did the same thing last year and for the wrong reasons. I finally realized that and now always try to find a balance between
- FreedomGirl: That’s really rough. for me, online relationships are turning out to be much more real and rewarding, because it is so hard to meet people who are open-minded and tolerant about who I really am
- Kyle: That’s very true, especially depending on where you live and what context you live in. one of the things I’ve noticed about myself is that I get so excited about how much I can share, and easily, that I see my friends differently. But really, I’m just not giving them a chance. If I don’t open up to them in the same way. how do I really know how they’ll react? I have to take the chance, if I want to integrate my two lives and why shouldn’t my wife be a little resentful of all the time I’m spending online, if I’m not giving her as much focus?
- FreedomGirl: Also, my online relationships have helped me reach out to people irl here where I live. Positive results all round.
- Kyle: That’s beautiful. looping back from the online to the offline in a positive way. see Natt, it can happen that way. What I’ve found is that when I open up to her and share my excitement, she supports me, we’re in on it together, you know?
- Natt: I totally get that. One of my wake-up calls was when V told me that all I ever talked about was my blog. And then I went out with Tess, Diva, and her, the majority of what we talked about was blog-related. So I think it can be deeper even than making VL friends RL.I think if you want to cultivate relationships, eventually you have to move outside of topics that only revolve around your inital medium.
- Diva: Yes and that night we talked about jobs, families and school. We also talked about SWA issues. Blogs are there because of common people we know but like Kyle said if we were all parents on a soccer team we would be talking about that too.
- FreedomGirl: I must say I like your blog better because I did meet you irl, and have a sense of you as a real person. same with Sinclair, and all the others: Tina, Jess, Gr.e.G, etc
- Diva: I think there is a stigma or something attached to this online world that because it is online it isn’t real or we need to question it
- Kyle: Well, we know that people who don’t see this as ‘real’ just haven’t tried it. That’s my take anyhow
- Diva: Tess and I met online from her blog and we are the best of friends now. I connected with what she wrote. The blog related stuff though was this conversation. Of combining the two worlds which I think is normal considering how we all met and the community we share. As friendships grow like Tess & I we spend our time talking about all the other things in life.
- Natt: Exactly. But it had to be a jumping off point. It’s more than just talking about blogs all day.
- Kyle: Sure, and recognize that it takes time. If you meet someone through soccer, for example, at first that’s the topic . If you want to continue the friendship, it’s probably got to expand to family, career, hobbies, etc but I think there’s a natural progression that happens with new friendships
- Steff: Yeah, but I’m part of this world and I think the relationships aren’t the same as in real life. I STRONGLY believe that.
- Kyle: Hmmm. But is ‘not the same’ necessarily a negative thing? Not that I’m assuming your point.
- Steff: It’s real easy to be friends with people you can power down when you’re not in the mood. The real world requires more. It’s different if you meet in person and do real-people things, but if all it is is the whole online thing, no, I don’t.
- Kyle: That is so true. We can all shut off our computers. No, really I can
- Steff: It is to the SOUL what being truly with other people, REALLY talking, and enjoying peoples’ company is. Not by a long shot. And in a society that seems to be losing more and more soul by the hour, shouldn’t soul-worthiness be a consideration?
- Kyle: I hear you but don’t feel that I’m losing my soul. Online community participation can be very rewarding and when I click with someone online, sometimes that relationship moves away from the computer. And that’s wonderful
- Diva: I think some are. For Tess & I we clicked right from the beginning and our friendship is over a year old. Not all my online relationships have been like that but I am as close with Tess and friends I have had since childhood. (I misunderstood what you were saying. Yes if it is only online then it is different. But most of my friendships I have met IRL.)
- Kyle: Well, and you and Tess have real life interactions to reinforce that. which is the point Steff is making, I think.
- Steff: That’s different. I’ve been using the computer socially for 20 years, had a 7yr relationship as a result of one connection, but I think these only-online relationships fail badly. One only needs to start e-dating to realize how MUCH computers lack. I agree, there’s a place and a void to be filled by online life, but I think a lot of people are in danger of thinking I agree, there’s a place and a void to be filled by online life, but I think a lot of people are in danger of thinking
- Diva: I agree, there’s a place and a void to be filled by online life, but I think a lot of people are in danger of thinking
- Steff: And I don’t think being on Twitter = LOSING your soul. I just don’t think it’s FILLING your soul. Big difference. I speak kind of from experience. I’ve been in isolation for months now by choice, but in a healthier way. When my mom died 10 years ago, I spiralled into heavy drinking and drug use, and stayed home online and became very cyber-addicted. It hurt me more than it helped, but at the time it just made me feel less alone in the world. Which might’ve been good.
- Kyle: I see your point, as a substitute for real life, not so good. I do know the benefits of being online too basically, or me, there has to be a balance. I am very entertained and informed through my online connections. basically, or me, there has to be a balance. I am very entertained and informed through my online connections. I’ve also made connections that have advanced my career. And certainly my social life and we all know that’s what happens sometimes. and again, balance. sometimes we need to be able to escape
- Steff: Absolutely. So that’s just my thing, I think the line between healthy and not, like most healthy things, is pretty thin.
- Audacia: I think the internet is in a period of transition too – once folks feel a little over OMGinternets! it will be just a tool. Which is to say, a means, not an end. which I think it still is very much at the moment.
- Kyle: Yeah, and you have an experience that really informs you and probably also causes alarms to go off occasionally
- Audacia: “levels of intimacy we open ourselves up to online are often not justified” – YES. But it can become compulsive – it has for me.
- Natt: I think that’s really what kicked this off for me. I got really addicted to being this persona, and I let it affect who I was and how I connected to people. I would have flashes of clarity about it, but the desire for intimacy with safety was addicting
- Audacia: I’m definitely more self-aware about those same issues today than 5 years ago, but for I’m still very entangled good & bad in the web. especially when things are bad/uncertain, I find myself entangled with the internet intensely: lots of clicking w/o knowing what I’m looking for.
- Diva: In the beginning I think it can get overwhelming and that is where you need to work on balance and combine your IRL friendships with some of your online friendships. It is being able to do that I think is the key.
- Steff: Well, I just remember the level of needyness and feeling “alone” I had back then, and I watch things unfold like that MySpace suicide last year, or my friend who was killed via Craigslist, & yeah, I find myself more emotionally removed now. But the thing is, I still enjoy this. So, it’s possible to be removed yet enjoy the thing. Balance indeed. Sorta.
- Diva: Balance is key in anything you do. If you are trying to avoid something else in your life then it isn’t a good thing.
- Steff: Oh, fuck. Avoiding shit is bad? HOW DO I MISS THESE MEMOS? [heads desk] GAH.
- Kyle: There you go “balance in all things”. it’s a communication tool, right? It allows us access to information and communities we might not otherwise have .
- Audacia: Definitely. but I think the shiny newness makes people talk a lot about blogs and twitter and and but at the end of the day it’s really about people and conversations. buzzphrase warning: “content is king”
- Kyle: Well hell yeah. Just like having a new hobby of any kind can get you a bit wrapped up in it for a while. and have your friends rolling their eyes in exasperation. Steff, that distance is important for you and it’s good you can keep it now. Dacia: clicking around can be soothing. It’s how I unwind and relax. It’s not a bad thing, but I can’t spend my whole day doing it.Should we wrap this show up? Remember, the transcript will be available on our Butches in the A.M. blog. let me get the link… the Butches in the A.M. blog is at http://butchesintheam.wordpress.com
- Natt: Yes lets. Thank you to everyone who chimed in. We may need to do a follow up show. Cyber addiction, accountability, and communication. Sounds like we’ve given you a good chunk of thought to chew on over the weekend
- Kyle: We’d like to thank our wonderful listeners for the excellent participation this morning and I’d like to thank my esteemed co-host, Natt. Thank you my friend
Natt: So until next time, this is a person who sometimes writes as Natt Nightly saying, “You stay classy, twitterverse!”
- Kyle: And I guess I’ll sign off with “”Have a great weekend!” We’ll see you all next Friday. Until next Friday, this is Daddy Kyle saying. Stay balanced. or you might fall off!
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